Curse

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 15, 2011, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Hey all,

Since I insist on using my favorite character in Jade Quarry (a big spiky war), I was wondering if we could have a short discussion on what a warrior is best off doing in JQ.

I am Luxon, by the way.

For a while now I have been using a W/Me with 16 Tactics, trying to mostly coordinate and deal with the Green Quarry (Luxon #1 priority point).

My build is usually:
Charge (14 sec at 16 tactics)
Balanced Stance
Drunken Blow
Desperation Blow
Savage Slash
Leech Signet
Power Drain
Healing Signet

I'm using this as a starting point for the discussion. Basically the idea with the build I take in is that I can tend to the turtles with Charge if they're near me (or if no-one else is at the Green Quarry then I'm left babysitting the turtle). The extra ability of Charge to break cripple status is rarely useful but on occasion it's nice (maybe 15% of matches). The balanced/drunken/desperation combo is to maximize my damage output coming to terms with the fact that I have 0 points in Strength with this build and drunken/desperation are +42 a hit. The extra condition layering can be nice as well, although because cripple (on enemy Juggernaut) is by far the nicest condition to layer I perhaps ought to consider going with Hamstring outright.
The interrupts are my arsenal against RoJ monks and works well. However, the "bomber" builds these days are often not monks but necros or something like that, so I may need to consider a different counter for that. Nevertheless, the interrupt chain I can sometimes throw has helped me win the majority of 1v1 and 2v2 encounters recently.
The 178 hp Healing Signet is nothing to scoff at, making me very hard to kill solo if I decide to be stubborn. This buys the turtle some valuable time if I can convince someone to be distracted enough to focus on me instead of on the prize (mind games ftw).

Anyway what I'd like to know is if there's a way I can be even more effective. The "warriors deal damage, go for damage" is a fun line to repeat but since damage isn't how JQ is won I feel it's not as obvious as going pure GVG-style damage war. As a warrior I can't solo cap as well as some professions, I can't solo defend as well as some professions, and trying to solo-kill Juggs or just cause damage to players seems to be not too effective since resurrection is free and fast. That, and my current build has yielded a better-than-50% success rate for killing Juggs.

So, I like the way it's been working for me (though I suppose keeping track of what's going on in the match counts for a lot when it comes to success, compared to just what's on my skill bar). But I wonder if others have had good success with other approaches and how I can tweak the current build or overhaul it somewhat to deal with the current state of JQ.

In particular I wonder if my interrupt line is still sensible.

drkn · Aug 15, 2011, 04:33 PM // 16:33

The melee in JQ are better off hunting enemy carriers and monks/mesmers that are annoying for cappers. You should go W/A with Death's Charge and some quick spikes to take down heal/prot monks and mesmers, as well as slow down and possibly kill the carriers.
The only melee class that can have a shot at capping is dervish, but it's still outclassed by the casters.
Seriously, no use to run a subpar build trying to do completely useless stuff in JQ. Not to mention that Charge! won't really help against mesmer hexes that slow carriers down...

So, if you insist on using a warrior, please be so kind and run a useful build, maximizing your class's possibilities. Kill protting monks, so that your smiters and mesmers can cap easier; kill mesmers, so they can't cap and rupt your monks; hunt down carriers so the opponents can't get points. Leave capping for others.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 15, 2011, 07:10 PM // 19:10

I appreciate the response bro.

I'll see about going with a more aggressive build and concentrate on hurting enemy carriers. It may be fun enough. I'll report back with how much more/less effective it is in terms of contributing to wins.

I have a concern about the aggro role: people have tried to take out the carrier I tend to, with rather limited success. I predict to run into decent enough defense that it may not be as useful as expected. But there's really one good way to find out.

My record in Jade Quarry is pretty good at the moment because I play the field well enough (IMO), so it's not like I am "useless" as a W/Me the way you seem to imply; I am no fifth wheel as anyone who has teamed with me knows. It should go without saying that I don't "cap" or even make any attempt to. I try to run general utility (tending to turtles nearing the jade dropoff point, harassing those trying to cap Green and/or attacking the turtles, etc.) -- Charge! is there to speed up carriers when they are not sped up by someone running Make Haste! or something like that, plus it helps me get around the field and survey things and find enemies to target easily (painfully these days with the global effect). Is the build merely a sub-par version of what other professions run?.... in some respects, yes. My build is full of trade-offs at the moment. Speed buff in exchange for a drop in offense. Interrupts in exchange for offense or other utility, and that's where I'm most interested in making a useful tweak.

The luring and tanking opposing melee as a way to protect carriers can be done by many variations of W/x so it's not an argument in favor of any particular build strategy, I suppose.

You're right that Charge doesn't help against enemy mesmers, but I am a warrior after all and I carry a big sword, which when backed by interrupts tends to help vs casters decently. The build is a jack of all trades, but doesn't do anything in particular spectacularly.

I don't want to feel like I need to defend the build, but don't phrase alternatives as "actually useful" because I think there's some prejudice there. The build as it stands is useful, but it may not contribute to as many wins anymore because it seems RoJ monks are less prevalent.

Is there a good way to help control "bombers" as a warrior that folks have tried?

Denar · Aug 15, 2011, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Seriously man, be Mo/P or any of its /E /Me variants, an N/A or a Mes in JQ. Melee are far too limited and disadvantaged to be optimal.

Also, to stop bombers, you need to remove their enchants (the surefire way). A war could be interesting and take stance removal (shadow stepping them back to where they used shadow walk or w/e the skill is called), but N/As aren't exactly the best of player roles (and by extension your concern) in JQ.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 15, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Thanks Denar. So are you saying that N/As (bombers) aren't worth addressing in JQ via a build? You may be right. Stance removal for interesting tech is worth trying out. I can knock out an interrupt in my current build for it and see what effects that has. The role I have assumed while playing tends to run into N/As and the like who are going after the Green Quarry.

I'll ignore the suggestion to not use melee ;-) Although... there's a W/x variant I may consider with that suggestion that I haven't given much thought before. I'll see what it's worth later tonight.

Axes · Aug 16, 2011, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Hi I have been using GW Guru for many years great site

and never joined up but I had to reply to this post lol

Warrior in JQ is a very hated class and takes a lot of abuse if you tend to use one in JQ. I am not one of that grp. I believe every class has its place and if used correctly can and will contribute to the team success. This is not to say warriors are good for capping, casters are far superior and for 95% of my JQ time I play monk/E/Me but I have played warrior very successfully and received praise and surprise from my team mates. Yes surprise LOL at how well a warrior can do. So here is my suggestion and build I made for W/A. I hope this helps any warriors out there in JQ so you can fill a role to support your team.
In my opinion:
Play a defensive role in the team by protect your Healers / Casters through offensive play by removing apposing players before they can cap a shrine or kill your monk that is healing the shrine. Do not 1vs1 melee unless it is to this purpose. How many times have you seen a ranger or Mesmer above the Green shrine hammering it, the monk, turtle and ranger shrine to drain the monk’s energy so they can cap? Your job at green or yellow is to KILL them for your monk so he can do his job. Not to cap shrines but to support your casters by destroying enemy players period. Let the caster cap as you support them. Now in the offence. You have four tasks; you guessed it support your casters. 1. Protect casters on the route to cap (your expendable) 2. If the shrine is not protected, by the other team you should take the shrine spike as a “ meat shield” for your casters. 3. If the shrine is protected wait for the caster to engage the shrine and then attack the monk that is protecting it or Mesmer ECT. There is no doubt you will die but you may have given the window of time for your caster to cap. I have done this many times with success with good casters on my team. 4. Rip apart the Jugs or the monks healing them so your caster (you guessed it) can kill the jug

. Now for the build/ equip.

{Hammer 11+1+2, Strength 12 +1, Shadow Arts 6} Max hammer with +30hp-10% adrenline-15^50 or +15% dmg while in stance inscription. Bow or spear/shield defence set to build adrenaline. I suggest customize your hammer for the extra 20%. Armour I am sure you can figure out

but heath on my warrior is at 515 without wpns added.

Build {Deaths charge @6=119hp, Elite Dwarven Battle Stance at 13 =10sec IAS 33% +40armour and your attacks interrupt foes. Counter blow, Pulverizing Smash, Hammer Bash, Irresistible blow, Lions Comfort- minor heal but most important the Adren. Last is Optional but I use Shadow Refuge at 6= 7 health regen and 64 hp if attacking. (Note you should be attacking you’re a warrior) As for the build use, it self-explanatory. There is no bad class in JQ (Ok maybe paragons mhe) just bad players. Go have fun be a warrior not a Mesmer

. Last note every build can be countered as for N/A bombers they can’t teleport on their backs and casters cant cast. Timing is everything.

As for all the bad warriors in JQ nothing anyone can do but help them or hope they don’t pop in to your match lol

Jeydra · Aug 16, 2011, 04:32 AM // 04:32

If you're playing a Warrior in JQ your primary aim is to kill other players. If you want to run carriers and defend shrines, you have better builds to do it with (Monk, Mes). Play to your strengths: take damage, KDs, more damage, more KDs, etc. Also take a shadowstep - with all the ledges in JQ the mobility provided by one is very important. Aim to finish off defenseless casters like said N/A bomber, Mesmers, Monks, etc. Because it's JQ, you can expect all of them to have Superior runes and little to no defense against melee, i.e. no blind etc. Kill them and they won't be able to take out shrines.

Sample build:

Dev Hammer
Crushing Blow
Overbearing Smash
Yeti Smash
Enraging Charge
Flail
Death's Charge
Bull's Strike / Healing Signet

byteme! · Aug 16, 2011, 05:03 AM // 05:03

I agree with this principles Jeydra laid out. In the case of JA you're expendable. (as Axes noted) You play to your strengths which in the case of a Warrior has always been damage, damage and more damage. You're expected to die but what you do in the brief time your alive can make a difference if not for yourself then possibly for your team. You have to be aggressive but not play like a Leeroy. If you're so worried about other Monks (RoJ), Mesmers and Bombers (N/A) I'd go hammer warrior. Nothing shuts things down absolutely like a nice KD chain or 2. Takes a bit of practise but boy is it worth it.

BE BRAVE.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 16, 2011, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Thanks guys, I appreciate the suggestions a lot.

I have tried a hammer warrior a hundred times in the past but not with an Assassin secondary as back then I wasn't into anything to do with Assassins. Perhaps it's time to give it another go -- the shadow step seems like it really can make a large difference due to the ledges, sure enough.

I spent a little bit of time today in JQ as a snarer/damager War and it worked decently but it was hard to really gauge the effectiveness of the build per se as tonight the opposition was just not there on the Kurzick side. Went as an Illusion-specced War/Mes to see how the "burden" skills would help with Juggernauts. They had some effect but not quite enough to warrant the attribute points, I think.

Oh I also tried a Flourish sword build for damage. Hamstring, Bull's Strike, and so forth. It had its moments but I mostly flailed around with it aimlessly and would need some time to optimize the way I use that elite. It seems to have potential for sheer DPS bursts but that's all the use it had for me tonight, so mostly I would get humiliated by rangers and the like if I actually engaged them.

I realized the reason that my "utility" warrior as initially posted was somewhat effective, and that's because there are frequently roles missing outright from the team (someone to haste the Turtles, etc.) and I can help with that a little. There were dozens of times today that I ran past a turtle and thought to myself "dang I wish I could buff that turtle's speed right now." I will see if, as a hammer war, I find more use out of Death's Charge as a W/A or out of Make Haste! as a W/P. I'll try both and see what feels more useful.

I have some great hammers I've accumulated over the years (see: guru join date) that I really don't use as often as I ought to, so this is a good opportunity to try them out. It's a shame that KD doesn't work on the carriers but it is what it is.

The reason I was concerned about RoJ and N/A is that I took on the role of Turtle baby-sitter on Green a lot of the time, which meant holding the fort against those attackers. A hammer KD war can do the job, no doubt.

Tomorrow or Weds I'll give it a go. I'll probably try a handful of build variations to see what suits my playstyle best and report back.

drkn · Aug 16, 2011, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Keep in mind to ignore other warriors, dervs or, in case they show up, paras. Focus primarily on player targets that your cappers call - if your RoJ monk calls a monk or mesmer, it means they're particularly annoying and need to die as fast as possible.

Also, try not to drag enemy NPCs from quarries. What i mean is - if they stand as spawned, a single RoJ can kill them all. Necromancers and mesmers have their job easier, too. If the NPCs scatter or one of them follows you out of the quarry, you just sabotage your cappers' work, especially if you don't kill that NPC right away (or if it's the middle mesmer, main target of every RoJ).

Quote:

The reason I was concerned about RoJ and N/A is that I took on the role of Turtle baby-sitter on Green a lot of the time, which meant holding the fort against those attackers.

So go Mo/P with Fall Back!, RoJ, Smite Condition, Reversal of Damage and Healing Breeze. You can both babysit the turtle and recap green in case the Kurzicks manage to take it. You can also, quite decently, guard green from being capped on that setup, everything in one bar. Only killing other players is not that easy (though a /Me variant has little trouble with stubborn physicals), but again, it's not the main objective of JQ.

e: one of the saddest things about wars in JQ is that most of them are bots, or are really stupid leechers acting like bots: spamming Healing Signet on recharge, whilst standing in a corner, away from any enemies; spamming Healing Breeze and some other monk (or, sometimes, sin) enchants, then using either autoattack or two-three attack skills on the closest target. Frapsed a few so far, will make a bot compilation soon.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 16, 2011, 02:27 PM // 14:27

drkn I'll take my hammer to some casters tonight ^_^

I will probably never go monk again in my life. I gave it a go for GVG a few times ages ago and it traumatized me haha. My only PVE chars that I'll bother using for this are a War, Necro, and Ranger. I have a Paragon as well but he's probably never been to Cantha hah.

Quote:

e: one of the saddest things about wars in JQ is that most of them are bots, or are really stupid leechers acting like bots: spamming Healing Signet on recharge, whilst standing in a corner, away from any enemies; spamming Healing Breeze and some other monk (or, sometimes, sin) enchants, then using either autoattack or two-three attack skills on the closest target. Frapsed a few so far, will make a bot compilation soon.

If one of those warriors turns out to be wearing an elite luxon cuirass and primeval leggings and helm with a big silver shield, kindly edit that part out >_> I was spamming healing sig in a corner yesterday for a little, and then ran towards a monk and sever-gashed him like a proper bot. Mind games... lol

EDIT: the bot-pretending got no reaction... but we were up 8-3 or something so it was worth the lulz

I gave the Hammer build a try and it was effective enough in its role... but I did not feel like I contributed a lot in terms of wins. Certainly I contributed more in terms of directly getting Balthazar faction (I won most engagements vs players unless I was outnumbered, and even then I would take someone down with me). However, yesterday we had a lot of bots on both the Lux and Kurz side, and in any case the general competency of players was so-so last night. So my win percentage was a paltry 40%.

I'll continue using this build for a little while because it is loads of fun, and will keep reporting on how I do.

Oh, so here is the setup I used (Axes's suggestion to use Dwarven Battle Stance was a very good one because of the skill's armor boost):

Attributes... ehh I forget. Strength 13, Hammer 14, something like that

Dwarven Battle Stance*
Hammer Bash
Counter Blow
Pulverizing Smash
Irresistible Blow
Mokele Smash
Lion's Comfort
Death's Charge

I will continue with the W/A build for a bit and then try out the W/P alternative with "Make Haste!" and see how much that can help the jade gathering effort. I will let you know how that goes. I may also consider bringing something a bit more "tanky" to help take out the ranger outposts, although the need for that will vary based on team setup.

Jeydra · Aug 17, 2011, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Sad to say, Warriors in JQ occupy quite a small niche. If you have to influence a game alone, you're better off playing something more meta (Nec / Monk / Mes). The time to whip out a Warrior is when everyone else is playing meta, when a Warrior does more for the team than yet another meta character.

I suggest against going /P because if your aim is to run juggernauts you are far better off doing it with Monk primary. You CAN go /P and run juggernauts, but you can do nothing to defend it. Even the weaker anti-juggernaut builds like Water Eles plough right through before you can kill them.

Just play to your strengths and kill enemy players as much as possible. That's what you do best; if you're going to do something else, pick another primary profession.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 17, 2011, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Thanks, Jeydra. To clarify, if I bring a W/P it would not be to change my role; I would still play the role of offensive damage (and occasional defense when it's needed, of course) and run around hurting casters and the like to turn any fights in our favor.

Death's Charge is but one skill and if I didn't have it I would still be fairly effective -- it doesn't make or break me. The same is true of "Make Haste!" if I don't use to turtle-sit but merely to provide a speed boost to turtles as I run past them (which I do a lot... since I fight... and die... and fight some more). You're right that if we have M/Ps turtle-sitting and providing near-constant speed boosts then my Make Haste would be practically worthless. But such is the case in the minority of matches I've played. So it may still provide good utility as I run the field and give us that little push.

I will try it and see in terms of practicality how it really works for us. I understand theoretically speaking that skills that boost my "primary role" can often work better than skills that don't, but the truth is that with each additional skill of that sort you get diminishing returns on efficacy and high-utility skills like "Make Haste!" (and even AoE spells if I go W/Mo or W/E) may do more good in terms of maintaining pressure on the opposition. Every match is different so I want to get a feel for these things on average. To be honest if our team is set up such that I really am free to run around and bash heads to my heart's content (we have all the meta chars we need) and not care about the turtles... then we're probably going to win no matter what I do. And in fact that's how games have often gone.

PRO · Aug 21, 2011, 02:59 AM // 02:59

I agree with axes post almost 100%, though i dont really like the build. And bombers can teleport while kd'd. Its a stance

As stated above, warriors are terribad in jq.

But like you i love my warrior and want to be able to do anything with him. When i play warrior in jq, i usually end up doing shrine defense.

Best warrior skills for jq?

1. IWAY (can keep this up 100% if you use it right)
2. bulls charge (Make sure to have the +1 kd)
3. You're all alone! (with a 33% longer weapon mod, you can keep cripple up 100%)

just fill in the gaps and you have a (semi)useful build for jq. Sure you cant go cap shrines, but u can protect shrines fairly well. Even against Bombers (just make sure to be out of the area range when shouting "You're all alone!")

Build i normally use

/edit Thought i should add: you never want to be 1v1'ing in jq, you are wasting time. If someone corners you and you dont have a choice lead them into a shrine or freinds. There is no such thing as 1v1 in Gws all you are doing is making your team mad. For some reason warriors love to attack other warriors, If you are attacking a meele that is not attacking a shrine or jugger, you are doing something wrong... they are no threat, run by them.

Bilgato · Aug 21, 2011, 05:48 AM // 05:48

I usually run a Rit/Ele suicide bomber for capping, and alot of times I can cap in 1 or 2 runs, but if there are opposing warriors,dervs or sins on me that makes it tough (like almost impossible).
I know you guys are discussing class details, but if you see or recognise a kamikaze runner in your area (on your team) and can help out that's 100% appreciated.

I love it when a warrior comes up and starts slappin' mosquitos, so we can get a cap.

Konker2020 · Feb 05, 2012, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Personally, I run my W/P with a spear in JQ on my warrior. Here's the build I use.

Barbed Spear
Blazing Spear
Merciless Spear
Stunning Spear
Enraging Charge
Flail
Lion's Comfort
Endure Pain

Strength: 12+1+1
Spear Mastery: 12

It's actually a pretty decent all around build. You're pretty well unkillable in 1v1 if you play smartly, and 9 times out of 10, I go against someone who feels some constant urge to stay and fight. The conditions alone pretty well crank out enough DPS, and Stunning Strike shuts down pretty well any capper. The conditions also allow you to take down the carriers pretty decently on your own as well. I enjoy this build far more than any of the meta JQ builds personally.

EDIT: Just realized this thread is close to 6 months old. Either way, hope this is still helpful to someone.

Hugh Manatee · Feb 05, 2012, 08:47 PM // 20:47

I warrior all the time in JQ and have sorted a method to kill enemy capture points. Use Complicate on a W/Me.

Basically:

Earthshaker
Flail/IWAY(Iway can backfire if your team is owning too much, but usually it works well)
Crushing Blow
Yeti Smash
Complicate
Bulls Strike
Enraging Charge
Lions Comfort

As you run up to the mines, target the mesmer NPCs, and hit their clumsiness with complicate. You will have a narrow window in which to destroy the point with earthshaker(you should be able to survive the thunders and rangers with your armor, just watch the timing of lightning surge). You can pin the npcs with earthshaker and yeti for your nukers, and once you have the mine, you can hit enemy nukers and rojers with complicate to mess them all up then kill with a standard hammer chain(you've basically replaced the res sig on a gvg frontliner with complicate). It may take you slightly longer to kill a point then a roj but once it's dead you can hold it by destroying anything that tries to take it.

Also, you can kinda raptor farm the points, hit the npcs with mark of pain, use balance stance and go in with 100 blades and iway and hope for the best.

Taevion0 · Mar 24, 2012, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Shadow Step + None Shall Pass = no aftercast delay, although not sure if its utility is worth the slot

mrbandersnatch · May 15, 2012, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

EDIT: Just realized this thread is close to 6 months old. Either way, hope this is still helpful to someone.

I returned a few weeks ago and have been avoiding PvP because I expect to just be a burden. I don't want to spend a day running through Factions with my monk just to PvP hence I want to use my war.

Hence this thread is great

dusanyu · May 18, 2012, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Job of a warrior in JQ is feild controll people complain in JQ when they see a war becuse few warriors in the game are good at controlling the feild first of all in JQ run a hammer, Standard Dev hammer work best for this

Str 12+1+1 Hammer 12+1 [Dev hammer][Flail][Crushing blow][Hammerbash][Prot Strike or Overbearing**][Bulls Strike][Enrageing charge] **protstrike is nice for dammage compression and killing carryers however, daze is stronger for stoping casters

as far as armor for gods sake take sentinals insignia!

for slot 8 go /N and take [Rend enchantments]

for a melee in JQ Rend is going to be your best frend as good melee in JQ Defends quarries (the longer you hald a quarry the more points you score)

rend becomes usefull fire and forget skill on bombers while you contend with the real threats whos builds are not wrecked by a single skill (Ele, Mesmers etc)

Beyond this learn to Q-step and Q-knock these techniques will notonly Prevent your enimy from casting but will allso alow you to herd them like cattle.